Loved this Erica and Phil. Loved this deeper dive into the elements, the way you both explained this and the examples given! I got a lot out of this and OMG I might just have to purchase the Holistic Tarot.
Love the thoroughness of your post! Every time I try to organize cards into categories my brain starts spinning and everything just kind of meshes and flows together 😂 this helps!
Elemental dignities... I have been interested in this concept for a VERY long time but if I may, and this is a true question, does the concept of elements include degrees of strength ? Maybe I'm not getting the idea properly but elements in nature are not only water, air, fire, earth. They also come in different moments and with different levels of power. For instance, fire and water weaken each other. Too much fire interacting with water will create steam. Not weakening but transforming into a blend of both. Now, if there's too much water, fire dies. Another combo would be air and water. Breezes evaporate water but in hurricanes, water will "empower"its destructive qualities. I hope I'm making some sense here... Fire is only strong if and only if it has air . If you suffocate it, it dies. But too much air will put the fire out. I understand that the amount of cards of a certain element correspond to its "degree", so to say, so I would then assume a 10 of Swords and an 8 of Swords to hold equal power ? Also, if possible, is there a definition of the element of Earth ? What does it relate to ? Soil ? Everything that comes from it ? Sorry for having so many questions but I've tried to find answers to these questions to no avail. Btw, I have B.W.'s book :) Massive !!! I will try and draw some cards using the bridge spread/technique to see how it goes !
Hello! I may have an answer for you, and it was something I found on Mary K Greer's blog post (mentioned in this post) in the comment section.
It all comes down to which system you choose to use. Benebell's and Mary's summarization of elemental digities aligns with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, where there are very specific techniques. Very structured and not much grey area.
As far as the card ranking, I take the perspective of this order (highest to lowest) - Majors, then Court Cards, then minor (which are then ranked by their numbers). My next lesson in May will be on the elemental correspondences of the Court Cards and the rankings (and associated element) within them.
Looking at the elements in an alchemical way is also an option - and you can develop whatever system works best for you.
As far as elements definition, I included a chart from Benebell's book you can save in this post. The tarot cards, as a general rule, don't really take into account the literal soil in the earth in an earth elemental card. The pentacles in the minor suite address areas of our life in regards to stability, finances, pragmatic action . . . and so much more. If have a special deck that focuses on specific elementals, that would give you more insight but it may not be as traditionally focused as the RWS or Thoth.
Personally, if it were me I'd try to keep it simple and as intuitive as possible. Keep in mind there are SO MANY alchemical reactions. Keeping to basic rules like the ones in this lesson give it some structure to find significant cards. In the end, do what works for you but no need to overanalyze the alchemical unless there is a clear interaction you see in the pictures on the cards AND the elemental dignities relationships. After those cards are found, I would read it as normal.
Brand new to tarot, but been trying to figure out “alchemy” based on what a friend has said. I feel that the opposite cards, ie earth/air, can make trees, life on earth, transformations. And that fire,water can make steam, transfer of one form of energy to another. Kind of like the original Art card from the Thoth system, with the fire and water going into a cauldron. Is that part of the elemental dignities, or something completely different?
February 20, 2013 at 3:49 pm - mkg
karrma – All kinds of associations can be made by combining elemental qualities as understood by each individual. It’s well worth experimenting with lots of possibilities as their significance can change according to the particulars of a situation. However, Elemental Dignities as I am talking about it above is a specific system developed by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. If you want to use THEIR system it is beneficial to understand it as taught and used by them. Some people take the general idea and make up their own rules or understanding and decide to call it by the same name. This can be confusing for others who don’t understand that you’ve designed your own system. You can, of course, do whatever works for you. For the sake of clarity I think it helps to know that the Golden Dawn Elemental Dignities is a very specific technique that shouldn’t be tampered with without making it clear that you are using unique-to-you or modified characteristics.
WOW! Thank you for this very detailed reply !!! I get what you're saying. Stick to the method you're using, and if using the GD, stick to their rules. Yes, the tables by BW especially concerning the majors are very useful too. So, Majors trump minors and the biggest number trumps the smaller. I'll reread your analysis so I don't ask something I missed there. Still wondering if there are cases where the "trumping”may clash… If it comes up, I'll let you know. Thank you so much for a true lesson and for replying. You're a fab teacher :)
Loved this Erica and Phil. Loved this deeper dive into the elements, the way you both explained this and the examples given! I got a lot out of this and OMG I might just have to purchase the Holistic Tarot.
The book is wonderful, but omg it is a full course textbook of every minute detail ever conceived for tarot. It’s quite daunting. Worth it!
Love the thoroughness of your post! Every time I try to organize cards into categories my brain starts spinning and everything just kind of meshes and flows together 😂 this helps!
Glad it helps! I am planning on posting 1 lesson a month all year. Welcome 💕
Just found your substack page and subscribed :)
Elemental dignities... I have been interested in this concept for a VERY long time but if I may, and this is a true question, does the concept of elements include degrees of strength ? Maybe I'm not getting the idea properly but elements in nature are not only water, air, fire, earth. They also come in different moments and with different levels of power. For instance, fire and water weaken each other. Too much fire interacting with water will create steam. Not weakening but transforming into a blend of both. Now, if there's too much water, fire dies. Another combo would be air and water. Breezes evaporate water but in hurricanes, water will "empower"its destructive qualities. I hope I'm making some sense here... Fire is only strong if and only if it has air . If you suffocate it, it dies. But too much air will put the fire out. I understand that the amount of cards of a certain element correspond to its "degree", so to say, so I would then assume a 10 of Swords and an 8 of Swords to hold equal power ? Also, if possible, is there a definition of the element of Earth ? What does it relate to ? Soil ? Everything that comes from it ? Sorry for having so many questions but I've tried to find answers to these questions to no avail. Btw, I have B.W.'s book :) Massive !!! I will try and draw some cards using the bridge spread/technique to see how it goes !
Hiya 👋🏼
What Erica said! 😊
Hello! I may have an answer for you, and it was something I found on Mary K Greer's blog post (mentioned in this post) in the comment section.
It all comes down to which system you choose to use. Benebell's and Mary's summarization of elemental digities aligns with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, where there are very specific techniques. Very structured and not much grey area.
As far as the card ranking, I take the perspective of this order (highest to lowest) - Majors, then Court Cards, then minor (which are then ranked by their numbers). My next lesson in May will be on the elemental correspondences of the Court Cards and the rankings (and associated element) within them.
Looking at the elements in an alchemical way is also an option - and you can develop whatever system works best for you.
As far as elements definition, I included a chart from Benebell's book you can save in this post. The tarot cards, as a general rule, don't really take into account the literal soil in the earth in an earth elemental card. The pentacles in the minor suite address areas of our life in regards to stability, finances, pragmatic action . . . and so much more. If have a special deck that focuses on specific elementals, that would give you more insight but it may not be as traditionally focused as the RWS or Thoth.
Personally, if it were me I'd try to keep it simple and as intuitive as possible. Keep in mind there are SO MANY alchemical reactions. Keeping to basic rules like the ones in this lesson give it some structure to find significant cards. In the end, do what works for you but no need to overanalyze the alchemical unless there is a clear interaction you see in the pictures on the cards AND the elemental dignities relationships. After those cards are found, I would read it as normal.
Here's Mary's perspective - https://marykgreer.com/2008/02/05/24/
February 19, 2013 at 7:45 pm - karrma
Brand new to tarot, but been trying to figure out “alchemy” based on what a friend has said. I feel that the opposite cards, ie earth/air, can make trees, life on earth, transformations. And that fire,water can make steam, transfer of one form of energy to another. Kind of like the original Art card from the Thoth system, with the fire and water going into a cauldron. Is that part of the elemental dignities, or something completely different?
February 20, 2013 at 3:49 pm - mkg
karrma – All kinds of associations can be made by combining elemental qualities as understood by each individual. It’s well worth experimenting with lots of possibilities as their significance can change according to the particulars of a situation. However, Elemental Dignities as I am talking about it above is a specific system developed by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. If you want to use THEIR system it is beneficial to understand it as taught and used by them. Some people take the general idea and make up their own rules or understanding and decide to call it by the same name. This can be confusing for others who don’t understand that you’ve designed your own system. You can, of course, do whatever works for you. For the sake of clarity I think it helps to know that the Golden Dawn Elemental Dignities is a very specific technique that shouldn’t be tampered with without making it clear that you are using unique-to-you or modified characteristics.
WOW! Thank you for this very detailed reply !!! I get what you're saying. Stick to the method you're using, and if using the GD, stick to their rules. Yes, the tables by BW especially concerning the majors are very useful too. So, Majors trump minors and the biggest number trumps the smaller. I'll reread your analysis so I don't ask something I missed there. Still wondering if there are cases where the "trumping”may clash… If it comes up, I'll let you know. Thank you so much for a true lesson and for replying. You're a fab teacher :)